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Gawain1974
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:09 am    Post subject: Gawain's 150 Gallon Tank Build Reply with quote

Well, the votes are in and it's unanimous--I'm definitely getting a bigger tank!

So, it's time for a new thread detailing the tank build and outline my plans for this tank, which I hope will be more successful than my last tank.

Tank:
The tank will be an Oceanic 150 gallon tank with dimensions of 72"x18"x29". The stand is a 32" high Oceanic stand, and the canopy is Oceanic as well. Right now, the stand and canopy are stained a dark natural wood, but I will be refinishing it to black/ebony to better match my living room. The stand is solid wood and is better built than my current presswood cardboard stand. The tank isn't reef-ready, but the price on this setup was too good to refuse. The glass is 1/2" thick plate.

Lighting:
Since the tank is so high, I decided to go with 3x400 watt 14K lamps on a magnetic M59 ballast. I got a very good deal on a new MH retrofit kit that has never been used, so even if I don't like the bulbs, I can upgrade them later. The bulbs are ReefGrow (some generic brand), but I read Sanjay's analysis of the 20K ReefGrows, and they weren't that bad. I will be using spider reflectors.

Supplemental lighting: The tank will have blue LED moonlights, but for the moment, I will not be supplementing the halides with actinics. I may use the PCs from my 55, but I'm not even certain if I will need those if I like the look of the 14Ks by themselves.

The wooden canopy is too short for these hot lights, so I'm going to modify the canopy and raise it about six inches. I'll have two fans to help with cooling.

Sump:
I originally wanted to convert my current 55 gallon tank into a sump/fuge. However, I'm pretty sure that I will be unable to fit the 55 under the tank since the stand has two center braces in the back. I could try sliding it through the top of the stand before I put the tank on, but then I'd never be able to get it out. Unfortunately, that wouldn't work either because the openings at the top of the stand are 1/2" too short.

So, I'm going to use a 30L as a sump with a Mag12 pump for the return. I'll put in either glass or acrylic baffles. I'm sorta stumped on the fuge for the moment because a 30L won't provide enough space for a fuge and handle the overflow when the return pumps are turned off. I could use a separate tank, and I thought of this, but I don't really have the room under the stand once I put my other goodies under there. Not quite sure what I'll do yet. Suggestions are welcome. From my understanding, I'm going to need a very large fuge on a tank this size to make much of a difference for nitrate controle. However, I might just use an old HOB fuge on the sump and use it as a pod factory. It holds 7 gallons total, but I'm not sure if that's enough volume of cheato to make any difference.

Other Equipment:
Fortunately, when I was buying equipment for my tank during the last year, I bought everything grossly oversized. So, I'll be reusing a lot of the same equipment

Protein Skimmer:
I'll be using my ASMG2 recirculating protein skimmer with the gatevalve mod. I've been happy with this skimmer. It was overkill on my old tank, and it'll probably be a little under-rated for this tank, so I might eventually look into a different skimmer. But for the time being, it'll work and I will see how it goes.

LR/Sandbed:
I've not been very happy with my current sandbed at all. In fact, if I liked the look, I'd go BB, but that's not an option for me. So, I'm going to go with a SSB of around 1" of sugar-sized sand. From what I've read, 1" of sugar sized sand will still provide denitrification. With the high flow in my last tank and the small dimensions, I couldn't keep the sand still. I might borrow tecofish's idea of using a remote sandbed that can be disconnected so I can then clean the SSB in the display and replace as necessary.

I currently have 60 lbs of LR in my 55. I will be transferring that to the 150, and I plan on adding at least another 60-80 lbs of fully cured LR. I want to avoid the wall of rocks look, and I'm hoping to have two islands of rock with a center valley, but with a 29" high tank, it's going to take a lot of rock to achieve any sort of height.

Additional Flow:
I plan on using the two Tunze Nanostream 6025s in my tank. They have an output of 660 gph, but a very simple mod will increase that to approximately 1150 gph. On top of that, a Vortech pump will create an additional 3000 gph of flow. Yeah, I decided to go with the Vortech....it was either that or a couple of larger Tunze Streams, and if you figure in the price of the magnet holders, the Vortech is comparable in price. I also considered a closed loop, but if you figure in the price of a reliable pump and plumbing, it's about the same price.

So, with a return pump@700 gph, two Tunze nanostreams@1150 gph, and the the Vortech@3000 gph, I'm looking at a total of 6000 gph of flow in the tank for a turnover rate of 40x the tank volume.

Phosphate and Carbon Control:
In addition to only using ro/di water, I will also continue to run my PhosBan reactor made by TwoLittleFishies. I will also continue to use this as a carbon reactor. I've had great luck using 2 TBS of phosban with a cup of carbon and changing that out once a month.

Ozone:
I will continue to use my Enaly Ozone generator and my Milwaukee ORP controller. It does make a difference in keeping the tank crystal clear and make the skimmate really dark.

Calcium Reactor
I'll use my Korallin Ca reactor that I got for Christmas. Now that I know what I did wrong with it on my 55, I look forward to having it on this tank.

Top Off:
I'll continue to use my AquaMedic ATO system with the peristalic pump. I've been very happy with this piece of equipment. Since I do have the space now under my sump, I'll use a spare 20 gallon tank for the FW resevoir. I probably won't use kalk in my top-off water, but I might later as my calcium needs increase.

Heating/Overheating:
I will use a 300 watt Won titanium heater. I will eventually get a temp controller. I'm worried about overheating now with the 3x400 watt halides. I really hope I won't need a chiller. I will also install a fan over the sump if I need to.


Livestock:

Fish:
The new tank will house my Australian Harlequin Tusk and my small blue tang. I know I'll add some new fishies, probably another tang and/or rabbitfish variety. I might also throw in my clownfish and diadema pseudochromis since I'm thinking of dismantling my BioCube.

Inverts:
I currently have a bunch of hermits, nassarius, astreas in my 55, as well as two tigertail cukes and a yellow cuke. I will move them all over to the 150 and increase their numbers.

Corals:
All my LPS will be moved over to the new tank, as well as my green yumas, zoas, and blue ricordia. Unfortunately, I don't have any SPS left, so I will gradually start restocking them. My sebae in my BioCube is getting huge, so it might end up in the new tank too.

Ok, I've written a book, time to stop. Smile
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Last edited by Gawain1974 on Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:27 am
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jasert39
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well its about time. sounding great les, cant wait to see it all get started. Depending on how the stand is built would it be possible to create a door on the side to be able to slide your 55 throught to make it under the stand?

anyway congrats on the new tank and good luck.
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Gawain1974
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasert39 wrote:
well its about time. sounding great les, cant wait to see it all get started. Depending on how the stand is built would it be possible to create a door on the side to be able to slide your 55 throught to make it under the stand?

anyway congrats on the new tank and good luck.


I thought of that, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea as I suspect that the wood sheeting on the ends bears some of the weight. Also, you're getting into woodworking skills that I just don't have...I have a dremel, so if it can be done with one of those I'll try it. Laugh
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds great. I am looking forward to seeing the progress. I had the same problem with my stand and I ended up cutting the bottom out of it so my sump 55g tank could sit on the floor. I rebraced the bottom of the tank, etc... I am very happy I got the 55g in there. It would take a little woodworking skill, but I have very little as well and it was not too difficult. Good luck!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many feet of head will the return pump have?
You say your using a a mag 12 for return, that will mean you will have somewhere around 8 or 9 feet to get the 750 gph for return.
Thats a little long imo and a waste of energy, I would look to use a 9 and try to only have about 4 or 5 which will give about the same amount with less energy which will = less heat.

You dont need to turn the tank to sump over alot, to get the best results its best to keep sump turnover low and let the water spend more time around your skimmer.
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Gawain1974
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kid Ego wrote:
How many feet of head will the return pump have?
You say your using a a mag 12 for return, that will mean you will have somewhere around 8 or 9 feet to get the 750 gph for return.
Thats a little long imo and a waste of energy, I would look to use a 9 and try to only have about 4 or 5 which will give about the same amount with less energy which will = less heat.

You dont need to turn the tank to sump over alot, to get the best results its best to keep sump turnover low and let the water spend more time around your skimmer.


Hmmm....I used the flow calculator on RC to get that number. I will be using 3/4" tubing and I will have 5' of head. I only wanted approximately 5x the tank volume as flow through the sump. Any more, and I could have possible microbubble issues

My current return pump is 800 at zero head. Maybe I should just stick with that?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is your curent pump?
If your looking for 5x which i think is good a mag 12 is way overkill.
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Gawain1974
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my current pump is a Cap2200, which I know is a POS. However, it's worked great for me these past two years. I figured what a Mag 9 with head loss would do, and it would be perfect. Thanks for pointing that out, Barry! Special K to you. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea i think the 9 would be your best bet if your plannig on 5' of head.

For giving me k i'll try to confuse you a little more, another option would be to drop one of the power heads and get creative with the 12 by using some T's and get the head up to about 10' to place water flow straight down the back of your tank to create some good forward down flow down the back where alot of people dont think to place flow.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you have it all planned out! Glad to hear it. First - if you're not good with woodworking, who's going to be adding the height to the canopy? I'm so/so when it comes to that kind of thing and it turned out to be pretty difficult to add the height and keep correct functionality. Good luck with it though.

Also, IME any amount of fuge helps. You mention pods and nitrate control, but for me the biggest benefit of the fuge is the pH stability of running a reverse photoperiod. Even just a small rubbermaid tub placed in the sump will help (that's what I did on my 90 back in the day - worked great).
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats Les, Have you thought about a closed loop?
I have mine over the top and love it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your tank is going to die! DIE I TELL YOU! im just kidding
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mushumatt wrote:
Your tank is going to die! DIE I TELL YOU! im just kidding


NOT NICE!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, James. I came up with a solution for the fuge. I'm going to use a 10 gallon sitting crossways across the sump and drill a hole in it with my dremel and use a bulkhead. It'll gravity feed into the sump. I should have the room for it.

Timmy, I considered a closed loop, but I decided to go with the Vortech pump instead since the price of a good external pump and and plumbing is comparable. Also, figuring in the aggravation of working with PVC. Wink

Matt....it's time you tell the truth....your "reeftank" is really a tub full of guppies, isn't it? Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DANg you caught me its actually only a guppy they all seem to die after the first day it makes me cry at night...

Let me know how those vortechs work. We are going to switch out our seio's for something more dispersed and less of an eye sore
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok everyone soooooo after reading through this and talking to Les I've come up with a competition for the Monkies....... once he has this tank ready I think eveyone should send him a frag, cause we all know he won't be able to buy his own at that point, and see whos makes it the longest............











luv ya Les
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, it's only page 1 and I'm already changing my plans for the sump, lol.

So, the 30 gallon isn't going to to fit under the stand without the temporary removing of a brace, but I will replace the brace and even add a couple of more to the back.

The 30 gallon will just be a regular sump that will house the skimmer, phosphate reactor, heater, etc. I'm going to use a 20 gallon high tank as a fuge under the tank, and I will elevate it so it will gravity feed back to the main sump. I should still be able to fit the Ca reactor, CO2 tank, ozone generator, and MH ballasts under under the tank.

I wasn't quite sure what to do about a fuge, but I figured by moving the FW resevoir out of the stand, I'd have room for a separate fuge tank in the stand. Our 180 display at work has a 20 gallon fuge, and nitrates stay at zero, so I'm hoping that I'll get good results with a similar setup. I'll use a simple 10K PC bulb over the fuge on a reverse lighting schedule. I'll hide the FW resevoir under an endtable or some other discreet location.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool Les. I did the gravity thing with the fuge on my last tank. One other thing to mention is that I went too small on the bulkhead and wound up with only about 100gph turnover on a 10. It was far too slow a flow and collected detritus more than it should have. I fed from the main tank but It would be far better to feed from the output of your skimmer or close to it. Gravity isnt in much of a hurry, and since the hose was 3/4'', without a screen, snails could plug it and flood the whole works. When you make your hole do it for a large diameter hose like 2 or 2.5'' that way you wont be kicking yourself later like I did.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Les,

If you can remove the back braces why not just use the 55 for a sump? It should slide right in. You could make a killer sump/fuge out of that.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tecofish wrote:
Very cool Les. I did the gravity thing with the fuge on my last tank. One other thing to mention is that I went too small on the bulkhead and wound up with only about 100gph turnover on a 10. It was far too slow a flow and collected detritus more than it should have. I fed from the main tank but It would be far better to feed from the output of your skimmer or close to it. Gravity isnt in much of a hurry, and since the hose was 3/4'', without a screen, snails could plug it and flood the whole works. When you make your hole do it for a large diameter hose like 2 or 2.5'' that way you wont be kicking yourself later like I did.


Thanks for pointing this out, Phil! I was originally going to use a smaller bulkhead with 3/4" hose feeding back to the sump. I'll definitely going with a bigger bulkhead now. Special K to you. Smile

The Grim Reefer wrote:
Hey Les,

If you can remove the back braces why not just use the 55 for a sump? It should slide right in. You could make a killer sump/fuge out of that.


Grim, I already thought of that, but unfortunately my current 55 setup is already spoken for. And NO, I'm not keeping it for another reef tank...I don't want to be murdered in my sleep! LOL

I could definitely just use another 55, but I like the idea of having a separate fuge because I could also isolate it from the main tank and use it as a quarantine or fish isolation tank. If I use it for hypo treatments, I could just then toss the algae into a rubbermaid and be good to go. Well, I suppose I could setup a fuge in a 55 that could be isolated, but I'm not feeling that adventurous. Another factor I didn't think about when thinking of using a 55 for the sump was that it'll be very difficult to get equipment in and out of the sump under the stand with such a tall tank.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ccuda6 wrote:
Ok everyone soooooo after reading through this and talking to Les I've come up with a competition for the Monkies....... once he has this tank ready I think eveyone should send him a frag, cause we all know he won't be able to buy his own at that point, and see whos makes it the longest............











luv ya Les


LMAO.....I just pray to God that my coral-killing days are over with all the time, effort and $$$ I'm putting into this new system. I don't like to think that I've killed more corals than the GreenPeace boat that crashed into the Filippino reef. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here are the plans for the sump: I'm using a 36" long tank that is 36x12x16. The water will drain into the section that houses the protein skimmer. This section will contain 9 gallons of water with dimensions of 18x12x10. The return pump section will house two sets of baffles so there will be two "U"s for the water to travel through before reaching the return pump. Water height in this section will be 8" (7" tall baffles plus an additional inch for water flow above the baffles).

With the return pump working, the sump will contain 16 gallons of water. The sump actually holds a little over 27 gallons max. The tank will only drain 1" with the overflow, but I figured 2" just to be safe. So, a maximum of 10.5 gallons will drain into the sump (it'll actually be 5.25 gallons). So, with the return pump turned off, the sump will be able to handle the water draining from the tank.

You gotta love those tank calculators.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neato.

Dind't get much sleep, eh?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iCam wrote:
Neato.

Dind't get much sleep, eh?


Haha, no, you gotta love insomnia. I tried for a while, then I got up to work on siliconing in the baffles. Ugh, that stuff is messy. I got two done and will finish the rest here shortly.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been way too many posts without have a single picture!!!!
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